The tradition
of men buying women food or drink and then expecting something in return seems
to be a deep-seated one, at least in American culture. Is it a Slovak tradition as well? Should this tradition be broken? How?
What can be done to make relationships between men and women less laden
with obligation and more egalitarian?
15.1.2018
ReplyDeleteI was definitely aware of the fact that women have problems simply talking on a Friday night a guy at some public place, but I was not aware that it reaches to such an extent. I am not sure how it works in Slovakia and whether or not women are being harassed just like the article mentioned, however I am able to contribute with my own experience.
As a guy whenever I talk to some new people I look for good company with no ulterior motives. Whenever I have a conversation with a woman and I say it’s “ “only a beer,””, then I mean it. It is true that I am aware of sexist stereotypes and “the guy pays” traditions. I have this urge to pay for women when we are at a café somewhere because “it is expected from me”. However, last time I went out with a friend of mine(a girl) and after having some water and wine she offered to pay and said it in a very casual way making me stop thinking in my compulsion to pay and take it as a natural thing. I realized that it is perfectly fine to let a friend of mine pay for something, because all of us are equal and have no strong obligation to pay. The fact that I have a compulsion to pay the cheque should be eliminated, at least in normal circumstances. If I go on a date, then in my opinion it would be decent from me to pay the cheque because I want the woman to feel appreciated, obviously this is a formality of some sort and after time vanishes.
It would be interesting if a woman expressed herself in another comment to switch up perspectives.
Thank you for your comment Tomáš!
DeleteFirst of all, I am very glad that still there are men who think like you. However, you would be surprised by the number of men that do not think this way, even in Slovakia. From my own experience I can say, that guys who "expect more" are not just in bars and clubs. A woman could be standing at a bus stop and engage in an innocent conversation about the weather and it could very easily end with "How about you go back to my place?". I think that because women got so used to this, they often reject a guy within the first minute of meeting them. The worst part is, that some of my friends have even been followed after rejecting a guy like this. Whilst this is quite an extreme of a case, it definitely happens. I hope that this will change in future, although I doubt it. I surely don't want my own daughter to experience the same thing.
If I were to give an advice to anyone reading this, it would be to just act respectfully. It is simple as that. It does not matter if it is a man or a woman, we should all respect each other no matter what.
The tradition of men buying women drinks is definitely a Slovak tradition as well. However, I do not think it is a bad one. Sex is a basic human need and this tradition exists because there is no other place to match people looking to fulfil this desire like bars, clubs and festivals. For the same reason we don't buy groceries at Home Depot, we don't go to the library for a one night stand.
ReplyDeleteBuying a drink is a sign of confidence and clear voicing of intention. If a woman is not upfront about being in a relationship before accepting the drink, the man may feel used and get irate. However, if a man insists that his intentions are just conversation and nothing more, expecting more anyway is just distasteful. If a woman looks genuinely interested when accepting the drink and slowly loses interest during the conversation, there is never a reason for harassment. Some men find it hard to accept that they couldn't "pick up a chick", so they shift blame on the woman instead, resulting in harassment. I agree with the article because it really shows that it depends on the person, there will always be men who will take accepting a drink as a free sex coupon and women who will accept drinks to save a buck. It is a vicious cycle. I have a (girl) friend that started accepting drinks to save money because she was a victim of unreasonable harassment. The only way this can be improved is to not seek vengeance on the other sex and not be part of the problem.
Marek,
DeleteI see eye to eye with you on most of your points. I also think you brought some strong arguments to the table. However, I believe there are some major drawbacks to your otherwise persuasive comment. For example, you wrote you have a '(girl) friend that started accepting drinks to save money because she was a victim of unreasonable harassment'. I thoroughly believe that being a victim of harassment would rather vehemently discourage accepting any drinks. This experience of yours definitely needs further clarification as it clearly does not relate to the points made by the article, nor yours. Moreover, regardless how many times I read your comment, I always find myself unable to fully understand your last sentence. What do you exactly mean by 'not being part of the problem'? I think it is only the lack of specificity that lowers the overall coherence of your otherwise persuasive comment.
In my opinion the issues mentioned in the article really are serious and they are all around us. Sometimes I think women are even scared to go on a night out with girlfriends only. Often when men at bars or clubs see a group of girls they immediately see it as an opportunity to take over, buy them drinks, and later continue with other intentions. Many times women can’t go out and have fun without random men always craving their attention unable to understand that they really don’t want to talk to them. “I have a boyfriend” is often a phrase used by a women when she really doesn’t want to talk or have a drink with a stranger. The phrase that should tell the man to leave her alone. But honestly, this doesn’t work anymore. Men don’t care if they have boyfriends, or even husbands, they still insist on the drink and at most times won’t accept rejection.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I’m not saying all men are like that. There are exceptions who really only want to talk and understand if a woman isn’t interested on the first time. But there are only a few of those. Usually when you go out in the night you don’t really come across these types of guys. Instead there are men literally waiting at the bar the whole night with their only intention
being to “catch” a good-looking women, buy her a dew drinks, and take her home afterwards.
Women have lived with such rules and conditions for a long time now. I think it’s kind of sad that even women take this behavior automatically and count on a situation like this happening every time they go out. It shouldn’t be taken as a certainty and even men should have their boundaries and act accordingly to a situation taking to consideration even the woman’s side. However, this can’t be changed in a matter of a glance and would probably take a much longer time and a whole lot more attention.
When I started reading the article I first thought Slovak men are not like that, since I do not know anyone from the people around me with this kind of mentality. As I continued reading I have realized that my perspective is most probably biased and that there are many men in Slovakia that expect something in return just because they buy a woman a drink. When I go out late at night I notice how many(usually drunk) men harass and shout obscenities at women. When I am with my girl friends I feel like I need to protect them.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the writer bringing up the #MeToo movement, as I consider awareness about these issues very important. Even the article itself brings a certain amount of awareness about this specific issue. I believe the first step to changing anything is the understanding of a problem. On the other hand, I am not fond the writer’s attitude towards men in general. She presented her research at a conference in hopes to network. Then after receiving a couple of business cards she explains us her thought process: "How could I ever be sure that any of the men who had offered to help me were interested in my research or career? What if, instead, my naive gullibility had landed me with a list of numbers from older men trying to sleep with me, rather than legitimate professional opportunities? What if I met with one of them and the encounter turned confrontational?" I understand this woman and many others had some bad experience with men, however that is not the reason to suspect all of them. There will always be people with ulterior motives.
Thank you for your comment, Henrich!
DeleteFirstly, upon reading your comment and the article I must say I feel the same way. People I am surrounded by would most likely never behave this way but there definitely are people who do have that kind of mentality, even in Slovakia.
As for the #MeToo movement, it is important to be aware of the danger. I agree with your stance on the issue and on the fact that the author of the article is rather sceptical but as several comments on this article mentioned, the number of women that have faced sexual harassment at least once in their lives is disturbing and it is not only a result of ambiguity. Men often start a conversation with the intention of getting a woman to sleep with them. I believe that facing such a situation can be very overwhelming for a woman.
It is more than evident that this problem is very widespread not only in the U.S. or Slovakia but in I guess almost all cultures, in some probably more than others. It is clearly a problem that women are more or less condemned to face this problem is some phase of their life. Freeing women from this burden would be a beautiful win for society, however the sex-controlled arrogant and overly-persistent force that drives even very powerful men to push women into uncomfortable situations. These men still believe that the women who they have picked do not have the choice to reject them.
ReplyDeleteI believe a large aspect which affects society in not only this failing aspect but also in a larger picture is the growing loss of thoughtfulness of people to each other. Nowadays no one cares about anyone's well-being or interests, people only see what they want and do not take anything else into consideration. The men that do what is described in this article don't care about how the women might feel.
Of course, as in every situation or conflict, there must be two sides and a immense number of situations where the guilt may oscillate between the two sides. There are surely things women could do to avoid situations like these, but why should they be restricted by men's sex-led restriction crossing behavior?